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Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 04 Dec 2006 09:18 PM |
All,
Ok, here's the secret.
All the Dazzle, Frazzle, Pinnacle, and other manufacturers have sold us on the idea that to convert your old VHS and Hi-8 video to digital format ... well, you need to buy their "box" ...
That's prolly the worst thing you can do.
The "boxes" are mostly junk (if you want good quality video and sound at full-screen anywhere near the quality of your original analog recording).
Do yourself a favor. If you have not already bought a new "digital" camcorder ... buy one. A mini-DV tape camcorder or one that records to DVD is what you want. Get one with an A/V (analog) input and a D/V Firewire (not just USB) output.
If you can't afford one ... BORROW A FRIEND'S. You only need it for a day.
Now, pretend it's 1985 and you are gonna copy a CD onto a recordable cassette tape (cause your car won't play those new-fangled CDs) and hook the analog-out connectors from your old VCR or Hi-8 camera to the A/V input of your (or your friend's) "new" digital camcorder ... and record your old format video to the "new" digital format. You will lose ALMOST NO quality.
When done recording to the digital camcorder, just export it (using Firewire) to your computer in DV-AVI format.
Viola ... your old videos are now in digital format. VERY HIGH QUALITY digital format, I might add. Much, much better than 90% of those dazzle, frazzle, pinnacle boxes can do.
... and best of all ... you didn't have to buy one of those dazzle, frazzle, pinnacle, etc. boxes.
You may say, "well, my Dazzle, Frazzle, Pinnacle 'box' lets me record .avi 320x240 at 15fps ... and that's good enough for me."
Well, it prolly won't be good enough down the road ... when you have destroyed your only VHS tape recording of your wedding and found that you are not happy with the results when you go to burn your "half-quality" .avi file to a DVD playable in a normal DVD player ...
Moral: Save your analog precious memories in the highest digital format you can when you convert them to digital format ... cause you can't add quallity back in 5 years from now ...
Hooah.
(somebody should "sticky" this thread) ... LOL. |
-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 04 Dec 2006 10:10 PM |
to echo magic-rat's sentiments
I always procrastinate the copying of the old formats to new, as it seems like every month there's a new gadget saying it can do it better.
A few months ago I finally did it... dubbed all my analog 8mm and Hi8 tapes to mini-DV tapes, using RCA cables for the audio and an S-video cable for the video. Don't even need a firewire cable, not until you want to copy them in all their glory to the computer.
my Dazzle 80 is now in a closet, feeling a bit unused. |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 04 Dec 2006 10:36 PM |
+1 on just converting to mini-DV tape and hanging on to that until the next "quantum leap" in digital conversion comes along (meaning ... after you convert the analog VHS/Hi-8 tape to digital tape ... it's ok to get rid of the analog VHS/Hi-8 tapes ... but, don't destroy the new digital tapes after you import into the computer ... save the digital tapes ... cause in 5 years there will be technology to make that digital data on the tape into something we can't even fathom today in terms of quality).
... and the multitudes rejoiced; for they had found the truth, and the light, and the way ...
LOL.
Thks, John. |
-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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 okiemom
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| Joined: 22 Oct 2006 |
| Total Posts: 27 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 16 Jan 2007 12:34 PM |
Rat,
I was just about to go out and buy a Dazzle when I stumbled across your post! I haven't taken the plunge to buy a digital camcorder yet, but am nearing that point. What about HDD digital camcorders, instead of the Mini DVD or DVD? Can I do the same thing with my old analog H8mm film and transfer the analog video to a HDD camcorder using your advice?
Please be advised I am a total idiot to all this video technical stuff.
Okiemom |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 29 Nov 2007 03:15 PM |
I have not personally used one of the HDD devices.
Reading other peoples posts in other places, looks like they are about an 8 out of 10 compared to 10 out of 10 for mini-DV and DVD.
That's pretty subjective, tho. |
-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 10 Dec 2007 10:48 PM |
| I spent this entire weekend importing movies using a capture device only to find out that they don't play well with Windows Movie Maker. I'd like to try your method but am unsure of what cables to use. My old DVD player has the standard yellow video/white audio and my new mini-DV has several slots but I can't tell if they are input or output or which to use- I do see a yellow AV slot- but don't I need a yellow and a white? Can you give me some more information about how to attach the devices? |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 11 Dec 2007 06:06 PM |
Crossmane,
It's different for several kinds of recorder.
What model mini-DV do you have? I'll check it out, if you can tell me.
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-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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timt
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 9 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 17 Dec 2007 11:39 PM |
I've been trying to do this, to no avail. I have a JVC GR-D372U digital video camera and a Sony RDR-VX525 video cassette recorder/DVD recorder. All pretty new stuff. I also have an older VCR player with red/white/yellow outputs and inputs. I have 2 cables: 1) DV cable that I use to download video from my camcorder into my computer; and 2) a red/white/yellow cable with an AV jack that came with the camcorder. It's used to output video from the camcorder to the VCR/TV.
Here's the rub: There is no "A/V input" on the camcorder--I assume it's an output A/V because when I try the method as you described (Red/white/yellow out on the VCR to A/V on the camcorder), nothing happens.
So I tried DV cable between camcorder and VCR. I get closer: As promised in my camcorder manual, a "DV IN" signal appears when I push the record button while the tape is playing. But ... no recording takes place (the little wheel that signifies "recording" doesn't turn; the tape in the camcorder doesn't move; nothing appears on the camcorder screen.
Any thoughts?
Tim T. |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 12:12 AM |
| On my Sony mini-DV camcorder, the default wasn't set to DV-In.... I had to go into the menu of the camcorder and change it.. |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 08:41 AM |
Tim,
I downloaded the manual for your camcorder here:
http://books.jvcservice.com/booklist.asp?Model=GR-D372U&x=30&y=5
The problem is that your camcorder does not support "A/V input" ... only "A/V output" and both "D/V input & output".
You need "A/V input" capability to record "into" it from an external analog source (e.g., a bullet camera, analog output from DVD player, analog output from VHS player).
So ... it won't work with your camcorder. |
-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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timt
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 9 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 08:39 PM |
Thanks, Rat. You are correct.
However, what I was trying to do was import feed from the VHS player to my camcorder via firewire, or DV connectors.
It appears that while my camcorder handles both D/V input & output, my VHS player ONLY has DV input. So, no talkie-talkie.
The JVC people advise me they have two VHS/DVD combo units with DV output: models HR-DVS3 and HR-DVS2. However, having just bought my Sony, I'm not in the market ...
While I have you on the line, I was wondering if I could pose one other question that deals with the overall import/editing/rendering/burning process. In my newbie projects with Windows Movie Maker, I:
1) Selected "best quality for playback on my computer" when importing video.
2) Ditto when saving the project.
3) Then I simply copied the finished movie onto CD for sharing.
Following this course, I didn't run any problems with hard disk space, crashes, etc. (I'm running a P2, five-plus years old, with a 100GB hard disk (91 is still free). And the quality was OK.
Now I'd like to take the next step up. So, I assume I:
1) Switch to DV-AVI option when importing video.
2) Ditto when saving the project.
3) And then I can burn the project as a DVD (that is, after I get the right software: My Veritas RecordNow does NOT fully do this).
That's it, right?
Thanks,
Tim T. |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 10:37 PM |
Tim,
Yup ... you got it.
I'm assuming that when you say "burn to DVD", you mean burn to a DVD that you can play in a normal DVD player for playback on a television ... not simply copying the .avi file to the DVD for playing on a computer. There is a difference.
The golden rule:
- Import in DV-AVI (not "best quality for playback on my computer")
- Edit (your computer will actually have an easier time editing the non-compressed DV-AVI format ... counter-intuitive because the files are so big)
- Save in DV-AVI (not "best quality for playback on my computer")
- Burn the DV-AVI file to DVD (using the highest quality setting your burning software supports)
Hooah.
P.S. - All "burning to DVD" software is not created equally. When I use Adobe Premiere, it looks way, way better than when I use the cheapo software that came with my DVD burner. Experiment with different DVD burning packages if you don't like what you get from Verdas RecordNow (I don't have experience with that one).
P.S.S. - The viewable area of your video gets "cropped" when you burn your .avi file to DVD. Depending on the television you view it on, a certain amount of the sides of the picture get chopped off ... nothing you can do about it, either. If you use text titles, keep them "away" from the sides and top of the video .... (play with it and you will see what I mean) |
-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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timt
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 9 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 11:04 PM |
Perfect. Thanks for the sound advice. DV-AVI it is.
Yes, the idea is to burn to DVD to play on a bigger screen. So MPEG2.
And yes, Veritas RecordNow doesn't do this. So, I'm looking for a new program. I looked at Papa John's list: stuff from Roxio, Sonic Solutions, Nero and Ulead. But the way I read it is that many of those are loaded with video- and photo-editing features I don't necessarily need, since I use WMM for this. In the desire to not spend money on things I don't need, I'm left a little confused. But thanks for the warning on staying away from the cheap stuff.
TT |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 18 Dec 2007 11:55 PM |
| making a video DVD requires DVD authoring software, which makes the menu in addition to putting appropriate MPEG2 files on the disc.... something Movie Maker doesn't do. It's not as simple as burning a data disc with a copy of a file on it. |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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timt
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 9 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 19 Dec 2007 12:32 AM |
PapaJohn do you have a recommendation for a good basic program with a minimum of bells and whistles to achieve this?
(BTW, Adobe Premier looks awesome, but what a price tag),
Tim T. |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 19 Dec 2007 01:09 AM |
| If you have a system with a DVD burner on it... chances are it came with a starter DVD making app. I'd start with that one, whatever it is. If you don't have a DVD burner, you'll need to get one first, and it'll come bundled with some software. |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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timt
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| Joined: 08 Dec 2007 |
| Total Posts: 9 |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 19 Dec 2007 09:42 AM |
| Thanks, PapaJohn. Yeah, the PC came with a DVD burner and accompanying software called Veritas RecordNow. It works for making backup discs. I use it all the time for system backups, which I store on DVD. I also use it to make copies of music CDs (my own personal copy, of course!). However, it does not convert files into MPEG2. So I'm not able to make true DVDs (as in the ones you can watch on TV, etc.). So I'm looking for something relatively affordable ... probably one of the ones you list in your book. I just need a program that can do that last step of burning the WMV file onto the DVD in the right format. Thanks again! Tim T. |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 19 Dec 2007 11:56 AM |
the Making DVDs section of my website has comments and links...
the only one I personally recommend is Adobe Premiere Elements |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 31 Dec 2007 09:56 PM |
This sounds like good advice. Up until now I have been shying away from DV-AVI because of the very large file sizes. My sources are 1 GB .vob files. If I convert one to DV-AVI using VirtualDub MPEG [Panasonic DV codec] I get a huge 26.2 GB .avi file. However, if I use something Windows Media Encoder [DVD quality video 2Mbps VBR] I get a .wmv file size of only 228 MB. Now the question is what have I gained in playing quality of the video [each played in Windows Media Player at full monitor screen]?
Quality of the 26.2 GB DV-AVI: Fair
Quality of the 228 MB .wmv: Fair
Did not look like a huge difference to me….what am I missing? Is it really worth the disk real estate to have the big DV-AVI files? Admittedly, the original quality of the source was a 25 year old VHS tape that I dubbed to a DVD which became the .vob files above.
What is the experience of others, would appreciate hearing back. Thanks.
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John Hanley
Sugar Land, TX
Vista Home Premium; WMM 6.0
HP Pavilion d4890y; 2 GB Ram; E6420 Core2 Duo |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 03:17 AM |
a DV-AVI file is a stepping stone to something else, not an end result. If you're heading to a DVD, it'll end up with MPEG-2 files made from the DV-AVI files. And once you're finished with it, you can delete the DV-AVI file.
The size of the MPEG-2 file won't be different if you start with a small WMV file or a big DV-AVI one.
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... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 07:25 AM |
| My source video on the dubbed-from-VHS DVD has five of the .vob files; four of which are 1 GB each and the remaining one is 0.3 GB. If each .vob file produces a 26X sized DV-AVI, I will have 112 GB of video files before importing them into WMM, which is a big chunk of my available hard drive space. Even though these 'temporary' DV-AVI files can eventually be deleted, I would prefer to keep them around until I am finished editing the entire project; perhaps that is a luxury I can't afford? |
John Hanley
Sugar Land, TX
Vista Home Premium; WMM 6.0
HP Pavilion d4890y; 2 GB Ram; E6420 Core2 Duo |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 07:45 AM |
Agree w/ Papa John.
I guess it's all about what you want to do with the video.
For me getting the data off of 20 year old VHS tape, then editing it, and burning to DVD was the goal.
Editing that old video (putting in transisions, music, etc.) resulted in cutting the file sizes down by over half (and making it alot more fun to watch) ... I cut out tons of "dead scenes" (boring stuff).
I delete the DV-AVI files after I get them burned to DVD ... except for very few (like my wedding video). For those, I actually keep the DV-AVI files (on a large RAID mirror).
An hour of video downloaded to DV-AVI format for me is only about 12 - 15 GB ... if you are seeing 112 GB files, that's huge. Did you use a .vob conversion program to do that? (Using the method described in the first post of this thread shouldn't create files that big)
NOTE: Burning to DVD will produce fair to very good quality depending on what program you used to do it. I'm using Premiere to burn to DVD ... it renders much, much better than the software that came with my DVD burner.
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-- Rat
"Ride to the sound of the guns."
The golden rule: Import in DV-AVI, Edit in DV-AVI, Save in DV-AVI ... then compress with "Windows Media Encoder" |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 10:27 AM |
Yes, I used a .vob conversion program: VirtualDub MPEG with the Panasonic DV codec suggested by PapaJohn. More info:
- To digitize the original VHS tapes, I bought a combination VCR/DVD Recorder.
- I put the tape in one side and dub what I want to a DVD in the other side, using the best quality setting available in the unit.
- This produces several 1 GB .vob files; each 1 GB .vob is about 15 minutes playing time.
- The 1 GB .vob becomes 26.2 GB of DV-AVI; I have 4+ of these files for a one hour playing time.
- Although I do not presently own a camcorder [neither digital nor analog] I am intrigued that your method only needs 12-15 GB for one hour of time. Do you have more than one quality setting on your digital camcorder method? There are lesser quality settings on my VCR to DVD recorder which would result in smaller files per time period, but I am using the highest quality setting.
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John Hanley
Sugar Land, TX
Vista Home Premium; WMM 6.0
HP Pavilion d4890y; 2 GB Ram; E6420 Core2 Duo |
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 02:05 PM |
| VirtualDub defaults to 'uncompressed' with file sizes about 5 times larger than DV-AVI.... unless you choose a compressor such as the Panasonic codec. Maybe you've installed the codec but not chosen it when making the DV-AVI file. |
... my website isn't here... it's at www.papajohn.org
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Re: Secret To Converting VHS and Hi-8 to Digital Format
Posted: 01 Jan 2008 03:22 PM |
| Once again I am in your debt PapaJohn (& Magic-Rat) -- I redid the VirtualDub MPEG conversion described above making *sure* that I really did use the Panasonic codec -- and this time it produced a 3.3 GB DV-AVI file instead of that 26.2 GB DV-AVI that I got on the first attempt. As you suspected, I evidently downloaded but did not specify the Panasonic codec on that first attempt and it was uncompressed. Is there a smiley for chagrin....for future use I have now saved the VDub configuration settings so I will be less likely to forget to choose the right settings. A big help guys, thanks! |
John Hanley
Sugar Land, TX
Vista Home Premium; WMM 6.0
HP Pavilion d4890y; 2 GB Ram; E6420 Core2 Duo |
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